BAD indian customers

I am writing this page to inform all architecture students and professionals (and not only) what they should expect from Indian customers.

Architecture is a difficult job to be done online, with many customers coming for free consultation and not interested in paying complete service, but Indian people are by far, the WORST customers, having NO RESPECT for architects and aggressively requesting custom house plans that they are not willing to pay for. This makes almost impossible to get a paying customer in India (also nearby countries, Pakistan, Bangladesh, etc).

See also: Good Indian customers

Suggestions welcome (how to deal with Indians)… especially suggestions from other Indians!

Given by numerios bad experiences with indians, what I should do?

Keep wasting 30 minutes with each person, offer consultation and floor plan sketch for FREE, who wants more should PAY. Maybe out of 100 people, 1 will pay for a full project.
Ask $50 BEFORE doing any sketch. PAY or go away, don’t waste my time! (there is UNLIKELY to get a paying customer in this way, people do not pay in advance)
Don’t reply to anyone on chat or email coming from India, or reply that I don’t offer services for India. We all know, Indians NEVER PAY, does not worth wasting time with 100 people to get 1 paying customer.
Other
Please Specify:

Quiz Maker

Bad Indian customers in architecture

When building a house in India, paying a professional architect is NOT common. Most people browse internet taking floor plans from various websites for free and try to adapt to their needs. Some people do pay architects, who are offering cheap services but only a simple floor plan rather than a complete project, many details, including steel structure, plumbing and electrical system, are decided during construction, resulting in numerous construction flaws.

People from all over the world respect architects, they check our portfolio (past designs, samples) and DO NOT disturb us until they are ready to pay for a custom design (except for quick consultation or questions about payment). BUT NOT INDIANS!

Many Indians contact every website they visit, if they see option to leave comments, they leave a comment, if they see a live chat box, they send a message. Doing this without reading what services we provide and that they may cost money. Indians also make requests on multiple websites, and when I am ready to help them, they no longer need my help. Indians often request things on websites that do not offer the things they request. For example I had Indian visitors who accidentally landed in Singapore HDB Flat Types (page that DO NOT state anything about offering architectural design services at request basis) and jumping in chat asking me for floor plans for a house they intended to build in India. I have seen real estate websites from various countries, that provide information and NOT architectural design services, filled up with Indian comments like “I need a 3BHK house plan X by Y feet, please email me at…“.

This behavior create a high number of leads from India that do not convert into paying customers. A pain in the ass for any business offering services online!

I can tell this from my personal experience, on my House Design page, I get from India 20% traffic and 40% chats, in 2015 over 100 Indians used chat and ONLY 1 paid my service and only after annoying me for 2 weeks asking daily revisions (for comparison, in other countries 1 of 10 pay, sometimes in advance).

Between 2012-2015 I had a lot more free time than today, so I was doing for every customer a quick sketch according his requirements, then discuss price for complete project. A strategy that turned successful in getting paying customers in various countries, but NOT IN INDIA. Informing people that I am making a sketch and send them in 20 min, the Indians were quitting chat if I was silent for 3 minutes. They could have browsed my past designs meantime, but no… they came just to ask and not able to give them a ready-made floor plan immediately made them to quit chat.

I asked in chat their contact email where to send sketch in case they leave chat, I sent sketch and 80% never replied. In case of messages left during night, I reply via email to everyone and Indians 90% never replied back, compared with 50% reply rate in other countries (probably they asked on multiple websites and by the time I came at computer, they found what they wanted elsewhere and no longer need my help).

I noticed that, when Indians request a house plan at specific requirements, some are NOT interested in my service to design a custom house plan, thus I can simply give them link to any plan, no matter if it is one of my designs for past customers or one found online, even giving a single-floor house when they ask specifically for a two-floor house (or vice-versa) make them to say “thank you” or simply quit chat, so I avoid wasting time making a custom plan for someone NOT interested (if you aren’t interested in my services you should just browse available plans in Google Image Search and DON’T disturb architects!).

But usually answering Indians and giving link to one plan makes them to request another plan and another, since each customer is unique, none of my past designs is suitable so I need to design a custom plan, a job for which I charge money. Many Indians quit the chat when I quote a price. Some Indians aggressively request me to design a custom house plan that suits their requirements, free of charge, disturbing me from working for other, paying customers.

Making a custom floor plan takes 20 min a schematic plan with only walls and furniture, usually 1 hour to make accurately, but can stretch on few days if customers ask many revisions.

Out of all Indians messaging me, ONLY 10% are willing to pay an architect. They promise payment, but ask a free sketch first, once sketch is done they delay payment and ask changes, then invent various excuses to not pay (mom died, dad lost the job, bank don’t give loan, etc) or simply stop replying. Refusing to make changes in sketch before getting paid made some Indians to insult me for “wasting their time” and not sending final sketch, when actually THEY are wasting MY time from working for paying customers in other countries (these idiots thinks that I am their personal slave obligated to serve for free? They don’t understand that I am a business having many customers paying?).

A possible explanation is that PayPal and credit cards are not widespread in India. Many people do not have any means to make online payments or simply do not trust paying people online (but is this an excuse to WASTE architects time?).

Several architects from various countries, that collaborated with me, told me that are also pissed off by emails from Indian clients asking for house plans for free, and choose to ignore all requests coming from India and suggested me doing the same. Other people suggested to charge a small deposit ($10) before doing anything, but I am in doubt if anyone will be willing to pay in advance, and if they pay, they probably will hang with me daily until their project is complete for a very low price that does not worth my time.

Solution: QUIT ARCHITECTURE, FUCK IT, too many bad experiences and low payments, not just in India. Since 2016 I wrote “I no longer offer architectural design services“, and guess what, serious and paying customers from other countries no longer contact me, but Indians keep contacting me requesting floor plans for free.

Top bad indian customers:

  • 2014-04-02 – wasted me 1 hour then said “there is no condition for paying”.
  • 2015-08-31 – I refused to do his project for 6 USD and he wanted to destroy my website.
  • 2016-07-28 – wasted me 1 hour because could not explain project requirements clearly, then said that $200 is too high.
  • 2017-12-16 – wasted my time and insulted me because I charge money for service.
  • 2018-06-03 – contacting me for 3 days requesting aggressively to do his project for 14 USD even if I told him to go to someone else and not disturb me unless he can pay my standard fee of 100 USD.

Plus the chats shown below. And these are just selected examples, out of total few hundreds people who wasted time chatting requesting a service but never paid.

Bad Indian customers in IT/databases

I created and sell a couple of databases, especially in automobile industry, and I get lots of messages from Indians who are not checking what kind of data I am selling and disturb me asking for things that I am NOT selling. For example I had some Car Databases for Europe and America and many Indians asked me if I have or can create a similar car database for India, for a very low price. For long time I refused doing this.

In August 2015 I learned web scraping and created Indian Car Database, even more Indians started contacting me asking for databases of Indian bikes, trucks, buses, as well as random questions about cars unrelated with products I am selling. About 20% of Indians ask me for database of car owners with email and phone number. OK, I created 3 additional databases for bikes, trucks and buses, but in case of car owners, I have no idea how to collect such info, this is personal information illegal to distribute, but Indians love email/SMS spamming.

Some Indians are actually interested in what I am selling, they ask questions about source of data, update frequency, payment methods, etc (questions that their answer is on website specially to not disturb me, but stupid Indians don’t read and love disturbing me), then attempt to bargain and negotiate price, offering $10-20 for what I am selling for $100+, saying that are students or startups with low budget, effectively wasting my time chatting. People from Europe and America who are students or who cannot pay my prices for whatever reason, do not disturb me.

Per total, sales of Indian car database are 1/10 of sales of American car database despite that website traffic from India is almost as high like traffic from US. Only 1 of 20 Indian leads convert into a sale, compared with 1 of 3 in Europe and America.

I created a database of mobile phone DEVICES and I am getting disturbed by Indians that do not check what I am selling, they ask me for database of mobile phone NUMBERS.


For your info:
Email marketing is legal when you make a website and allow people to subscribe themselves to your promotional offers. But if you buy a “list of emails” from somewhere else and send emails to all without having their consent to receive your promotional offers, is no longer legal, this is called SPAMMING. People are likely to report you for spam and nobody will ever receive your emails in Inbox.

Contacting me without being interested in my design services is ANNOYING!

Example of visitor messaging me and after sending link to a pre-made house plan, even one with 3 floors, when he ask for 2 floors, he say THANKS and quit, I offered the service of designing a new plan according his requirements, but he is not interested.
The GOOD part is that I wasted only 8 minutes with him.
the BAD part is that this is happening again and again with various people from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, etc.

I am really ANNOYED by such people!!!

I gave him 2 links to existing sample houses, he keep asking my help, I offer to design a new house plan, he say OK to wait 20 min… and while designing he QUIT!

Chat started on Monday, January 26, 2015 9:56:01 PM
Counrty: India
Page URL: http://www.teoalida.com/design/houseplans/

(9:56:01 PM) *** Visitor has joined the chat ***
(9:56:05 PM) chat support – teoalida.com: Hello from website admin! If you need any help or just wanna chat, drop here a message!
(9:56:39 PM) Visitor: yes
(9:56:45 PM) *** Teoalida has joined the chat ***
(9:56:52 PM) Teoalida: so..?
(9:57:49 PM) Visitor: 40 by 50 feet my plot i want 3 room 1 kichen
(9:58:27 PM) Teoalida: something similar with http://www.teoalida.com/design/Terraced-House-25x40ft.png ?
(9:58:36 PM) Teoalida: 2 bedrooms + living + kitchen?
(9:58:46 PM) Teoalida: and bungalow… not attached to property line?
(9:59:29 PM) Visitor: but i want me 3 bed room?
(9:59:46 PM) Teoalida: and perhaps 2 bathroom too?
(10:00:47 PM) Teoalida: And are you interested in detailed construction drawings (fully-dimensioned floor plan, elevation, section, 3D design, what else is needed?)… or just looking for floor plan ideas?
(10:01:12 PM) Visitor: ok
(10:01:54 PM) Teoalida: OK what?
(10:02:47 PM) Teoalida: http://www.teoalida.com/design/Square-Houses.png vs http://www.teoalida.com/design/Bungalow-House-93sqm.png … which do you like more?
(10:02:48 PM) Visitor: i mins yes
(10:03:33 PM) Visitor: thanks
(10:03:44 PM) Teoalida: Thanks? so this was all what you needed?
(10:03:53 PM) Teoalida: I though…. that you are interested to design a new house for you
(10:11:02 PM) Visitor: 40 ft.widh and 50 ft long my plot size
(10:11:17 PM) Teoalida: 12x15m
(10:11:24 PM) Teoalida: and you need to keep 5 feet open space all around?
(10:11:37 PM) Visitor: yes
(10:12:10 PM) Teoalida: can you wait 20 min to modify a plan until fits your land size?
(10:12:26 PM) Visitor: ok
(10:12:30 PM) Teoalida: and after this plan are you interested in a complete project?
(10:16:28 PM) *** Visitor has left ***

Ask help and never reply back! So ANNOYING!

Contrary with the above case, the following visitor kept my website opened for at least 96 minutes, and probably had other websites opened too, this explain why his first message is only at 37 minutes after my greeting, then forgot me and never replied.  I wonder… did he saw my sketch before leaving website? or I wasted 20 minutes drawing it?

Again, I suspect that these people browse multiple websites, solicit my services for NO REASON, then they find a suitable floor plan elsewhere so no longer needed anything for me =  WASTED TIME.

Chat started on Friday, July 25, 2014 6:50:41 PM
Country: India, Region: Maharashtra, City: Mumbai
Page URL: http://www.teoalida.com/design/houseplans/

(6:50:41 PM) *** Visitor has joined the chat ***
(6:50:48 PM) customer service – teoalida.com (trigger): Hello from website admin! Here I also offer architecture ideas and design services… can I help you with anything? Just drop here a message!
(7:27:15 PM) Visitor: Hi I just saw this website and wanted to he your advice in planning my house, built up area 8mtrs x 11mtrs, I am looking for a 1+2 with a garage and open terrace. can you please advise me what type of a house should I built in this area. Thanks in advance
(7:27:41 PM) Teoalida: 1+2 bedrooms?
(7:27:41 PM) *** Teoalida has joined the chat ***
(7:27:56 PM) Teoalida: 2 floors?
(7:28:08 PM) Teoalida: that land is quite small
(7:28:09 PM) Visitor: yes two floors
(7:29:11 PM) Teoalida: Like this? http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/8462/housetinyfloorplan.png
(7:29:20 PM) Teoalida: or give me 20 min to design one specially for you
(7:29:36 PM) Teoalida: do you need an advice = floor plan ideas… or also fully-detailed drawings for contractors?
(7:29:43 PM) Visitor: gr + 1st flr 8mtrs x 11 mtrs
(7:30:41 PM) Visitor: fully detailed drawings or a floor plan
(7:31:43 PM) Teoalida: great
(7:31:50 PM) Teoalida: let me make a simple plan first
(7:34:28 PM) Teoalida: can you leave an email address in case you disconnect?
(7:40:20 PM) Teoalida: I will send you in 10 minutes
(7:48:54 PM) Teoalida: Are you still there? went AFK or in another tab?
(7:49:04 PM) Teoalida: here is my drawing http://www.teoalida.com/design/sketches/8x11m.PNG
(7:49:15 PM) Teoalida: waiting for your comments
(8:26:15 PM) *** Visitor has left ***

LOL at this indian

Chat started on Thursday, June 12, 2014 8:26:21 PM
(9:07:59 PM) Teoalida: And how much would you pay for a fully-dimesioned floorplan
(9:08:48 PM) Visitor: Rs 7000/- for local archtect
(9:09:12 PM) Teoalida: hmm?
(9:09:18 PM) Teoalida: do you pay me or only him?
(9:09:27 PM) Teoalida: and 7000 rupees = 120 USD looks dubious cheap
(9:09:46 PM) Visitor: yaa
(9:10:17 PM) Visitor: work force is quite cheap in india
(9:10:45 PM) Teoalida: I guess so, but didn’t expected so cheap
(9:10:54 PM) Teoalida: well… actually I asked how much do you pay for MY service?

He solicit a free sketch from me, and ADMIT that is paying someone else for the full project. And I suspect that other people who I dealt with, did the same. Why I need to waste time with such people?

Indian with NO ethics aggressively demanding FREE services

2 January 2015, I done “first sketch”, he asked for revision, I revised and asked what should include in final project, trying to negotiate a price, he asked another contradictory revision, meantime I went to dinner, another customer contacted me, etc. I told him that I am giving him a day to decide and come back tomorrow, but he started threatening me that will go to another designer if I do not revise now and send “final floor plan” for free, promising to pay $50 for 3D design. I tried to explain that is not obligation to serve for free, he said that do not trust paying because I can take money and do not send the work (I have a website + live chat, if he still do not trust me, how I can trust him that he will pay?), but if he insist to have it revised for free, just BE PATIENT 30 min to serve another customer. Now started messaging me very fast, insulting me that I am unprofessional, that I wasted him entire day, that I talked 4 hours and designed only 30 min, that I spend time on other things, that my job is to frustrate him, and ragequit.
Luckily, other customer didn’t quit because I replied with delay due to the above idiot messaging me non-stop.

Being nice (unlike him), after finished other customer, I did requested revision and emailed him:

I attach there 1 more sketch risking to steal it and never hear again from you
I’m sorry if you stayed at computer 4 hours non-stop waiting for me. You could leave chat and come back later, I was sending the sketch via email when I had time.
For your info: I wasted ONLY 1 HOUR with you because other 3 hours I worked for other 2 customers. Now I am frustrated too for time spent for you instead of other customers!
Indeed, I am unprofessional, I am sorry if this is why you do not TRUST me. Probably many do not trust me and this is why I get few paying customers. So how I can give trust?
Feel free to go to a professional company, do note that professionals companies charge you 50% of agreed price BEFORE doing any sketch. Would you TRUST them? Let me WARN YOU: if you don’t like their sketch you need to pay another 50% for a second sketch, then you change your mind and have to pay another 50% for revision, then pay rest of 50% to get final drawing. You end paying 200% of initial agreed price.
I do sketches for FREE as long I have nothing else to do. I told you that I am BUSY because holidays bring me a record number of customers. Instead of appreciating that I wasted my time helping you for FREE, you insult me for wasting your time. How professional is YOUR attitude?
I imagine how much time you are going to waste over next days looking for someone offering design services FREE OF CHARGE. Because you don’t trust paying anyone online?
Please keep me informed if you ever find a professional serving you for FREE or how much do you pay him!

(the above rows are just half of email). No reply received, not even a “thank you” or “sorry for taking your time”.

On website there was a clear warning, but he is BLIND:
Please do not solicit me to spend too much time revising sketches, if you do not intend to pay (for construction drawings).
This FREE offer will end when the workload will be full or if too many people abuse it!

On chat I told him workload is full during holidays. But he is a fucking idiot treating me like his family members slaves, available 24/7 to serve him for FREE, instead of a businessman dealing with multiple people at time.

A rare PAYING indian… annoyed me for 2 weeks to pay $40

He wanted a house with 2 bedooms on ground floor and two 1-bedroom units for rental on upper floor, on a very small 25x50ft lot, which is from start a very difficult project, and if that was not hard enough, he wanted to be Vastu-compliant. I made a free sketch and he asked about to revise it, he was talking about payment all time, insisted to revise it and will pay me, I told him to make a test payment of $10 to show that he does have Paypal account (Paypal is not popular in India), he paid me $1 in 3rd day.

Following days he visited my website and opened the chat daily, chatting for 2-4 hours every day asking for revisions. He asked to add a 3rd bedroom, complained X but changing it, he would complain about Y and Z, and so on. I told him that I made the best possible layout, no house follow 100% Vastu rules, he should accept a compromise. I revised and sent him 3 times then ignored his requests and worked at my other projects, answering his questions only occasionally.

Some days he attempted to pretend to be a new customer hoping to get a new free sketch. One day he said that no longer like west-facing and have exchanged with someone else east-facing lot which is 1 feet wider ft and INSISTED to make a new FREE sketch because “I never gave him a 26×50 ft sketch” despite that my terms say 1 FREE sketch per person, not per lot, revisions are for PAYING customers only, and his $1 payment don’t count.

I copy-pasted my procedure of service 3 times and also link to this customer telling me to  revise the sketch only after getting half of payment, but he was too idiot to understand.

He saying that have paid part of payment ($1) and kept promising that will pay full $50 price if I revise according his needs (despite that should have charged him $200 for all time he wasted me).

One day I done one more revision, next day surprise, he paid me $40 (at 2 weeks since initial contact), but he didn’t stopped to contact me every day and waste time which I could use for other, higher-paying customers. He asked now 3D design too (and elevations and sections) promising to pay $50 more, despite that the price would have been $300, I made a little 3D design but he didn’t liked it… I imagine how long he would annoy me until next payment. I gave him the DWG files so he can edit himself and told him to go to another designer who accept this type of annoying customers!

He complained about my unprofessional attitude. Yes is unprofessional, but HAD TO get rid of him. Other projects came meantime and got busier than at the moment he contacted me first time.

Conclusion: Indians DOES PAY if are satisfied, but if I knew how much takes to satisfy him I would have NOT made any free sketch to attract him, I would simply let him to go to other designer!

He told me that have asked other designers as well, and don’t like them because they “work offline” referring at the fact that don’t have chat service to talk with designer while he is working. I do the same, many customers I are greet via chat then we talk for few minutes, they tell house requirements then I send the house via email and continue without chatting. Why does THIS INDIAN need to chat all time? Very ANNOYING!

He is requesting a house design, but actually he do not want to design a house for him, he rather wanted to…

Note: this chat happened in 2012, in 5th day of using Zopim chat service, due to misconfiguration, the chat window did not showed in which page he is looking. Also in 2012 I was not expecting that such cases will become a NORM with indian customers.

Monday, 4 Jun, 2012
[21:47] Teoalida (trigger): Hello from website admin. Can I help you with anything? Click here to chat with me!
[21:50] Visitor: i am looking for a house design 40 ft width and 60ft length with 5 beds
[21:51] Teoalida has joined the conversation
[21:51] Teoalida: Did my house designs match you?
[21:51] Teoalida (trigger): Hello from website admin. Can I help you with anything? Reply here to chat with me!
[21:52] Teoalida: I can do custom designs too
[21:52] Visitor: let me see
[21:53] Teoalida: Is not necessary to be so big
[21:53] Teoalida: or that’s your LAND size?
[21:53] Visitor: its my land size
[21:54] Teoalida: So how much can be used for house?
[21:54] Teoalida: is required any setbacks from lot limits?
[21:54] Visitor: all
[21:55] Visitor: no
[21:55] Teoalida: You can build a huge house on that
[21:56] Teoalida: Give an opinion about my Narrow Bungalow
[21:56] Teoalida: or Semi-detached luxury
[21:56] Teoalida: I think that for you is necessary a more squarish house
[21:57] Visitor: semi delicated
[21:58] Teoalida: Should include parking lots or garage? There’s more details to discuss before designing
[21:58] Teoalida: Waiting for an opinion about my existing designs
[22:01] Teoalida:
[22:01] Visitor: it should be double story 2 cars can be park
[22:01] Teoalida: 2 cars parked in front or in garage?
[22:02] Visitor: in front
[22:02] Teoalida: What is on neighbor lots? I guess that you don’t want to have window towards neighbor plain wall
[22:04] Teoalida: C’mon give me an opinion
[22:04] Teoalida: saw this? http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/9081/narrowbungalow.png
[22:04] Visitor: i have no neighbur i own the land arround it
[22:04] Teoalida: oh lol
[22:05] Visitor: not much
[22:05] Teoalida: I can imagine…. 4 bedrooms on upper floor and 1 on lower floor
[22:05] Teoalida: maybe L-shaped to have space for cars
[22:05] Teoalida: and wider floorplan and larger rooms since you have a lot of land
[22:06] Teoalida: any comments?
[22:06] Visitor: no 2 beds on gr floor 3 on 1st floor
[22:07] Teoalida: I don’t think that the living and kitchen can be fit under 1 bedroom
[22:08] Visitor: under one bed or two
[22:08] Teoalida: or I can make living room tall on both floors
[22:09] Visitor: ok
[22:09] Teoalida: I can make 3D design too after more discussing about details, if you want
[22:10] Visitor: ok
[22:10] Teoalida: can you add me in messenger or give me an e-mail?
[22:11] Teoalida: Otherwise I will lose you once you leave from here
[22:13] Visitor: dont u have any plan right now
[22:14] Teoalida: Where are you looking?
[22:15] Visitor: i think home page
[22:15] Teoalida: “dont u have any plan right now” how you ask me to design a custom house without seeing my current house plans?
[22:15] Teoalida: see House Design page
[22:17] Teoalida: oh lol
[22:18] Teoalida: I though that you look in http://teoalida.webs.com/housedesign.htm
[22:19] Teoalida: And I wait an opinion about these BEFORE doing any custom design for you
[22:20] Visitor 1179572645 has left the conversation

 

What I though that happened: though that he is looking in the page with House Plans where at top of page was this announcement “I can do custom house design for anyone in the world!” and that is why he contacted me requesting a house design, this is why I asked an opinion about “narrow bungalow”, I even started editing a house plan at 22:08 intending to design a custom house FOR HIM.

What actually happened (and realized later): he was looking in this page with Apartment plans from Singapore, and requested a house plan without being aware that the page he was looking in did NOT stated that I am providing any service, and the fact that I provide service was a coincidence….

Cases like above one repeated few times but ONLY with indians. This gave hypotesys that indians love to ASK / REQUEST a floor plan even if they need just a house plan that can be found in Google Images… and not interested in my design services.

This guy visit a page about Singapore and ask about India

Another proof that Indian people ASK questions without reading what the website is. He visit a page about housing in Singapore and ask me what is the size of apartment in India. Only by COINCIDENCE I also work in architecture and offered him a service, but he quit the chat.

Chat started on Monday, September 07, 2015 7:07:13 PM
LOCATION: United Arab Emirates
PAGE URL: http://www.teoalida.com/singapore/hdbflattypes/

(7:07:13 PM) *** Visitor has joined the chat ***
(7:07:17 PM) Teoalida: Hello from website admin! If you need any help or just wanna chat, drop here a message!
(7:08:09 PM) Visitor: What is the area required to build a 4 bedroom apartment?
(7:08:16 PM) *** Teoalida has joined the chat ***
(7:08:25 PM) Teoalida: from 80 sqm in Hong Kong and 200+ sqm in America
(7:08:43 PM) Visitor: how bout in india
(7:08:53 PM) Teoalida: here is about 150 sqm
(7:10:31 PM) Teoalida: 2-bedroom 80 sqm, 3-bedroom 110 sqm, 4-bedroom 150 sqm… typical size in India for middle-class housing
(7:11:16 PM) Visitor: So 100x100sqt ft would be enough/
(7:11:51 PM) Teoalida: 100-100sqt is your land area to build a block with 4-room apartments?
(7:11:58 PM) Visitor: yes’
(7:12:02 PM) Teoalida: ft, not sqft
(7:12:08 PM) Teoalida: 100×100 ft is about 30x30m
(7:12:25 PM) Visitor: ok
(7:12:38 PM) Teoalida: which is enough to fit this block http://www.teoalida.com/design/Square-Large-floorplan.png
(7:12:49 PM) Teoalida: BTW, what are you looking for in Singapore HDB Flat Types page?
(7:13:02 PM) Teoalida: how the Singapore page is related with what are you asking about India?
(7:13:21 PM) Teoalida: as coincidence, I also design buildings… but I guess that you were not aware of. Are you interested in working with me?
(7:14:01 PM) Visitor: can i get a plan for 4 BHK
(7:14:20 PM) Teoalida: The above link is showing 4-bedroom apartments
(7:14:24 PM) Visitor: ok
(7:16:16 PM) Teoalida: Look in http://www.teoalida.com/design/apartmentplans/ for more of my projects
(7:16:33 PM) Teoalida: which is your favorite of these apartments? http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/5763/5roomapartments.png
(7:23:05 PM) Teoalida: ?
(7:30:03 PM) *** Visitor has left ***

Funniest Indian customer

He visited me only website home page and immediately contacted me, typical for people who know me or were told by a friend to contact me. There is not clear what he is looking for: dating girls, architecture drawing services or he want just sample drawings…
He do not provide the project details (land Length × Width + number of rooms), but instead he is asking a series of FUNNY questions then quit.

Chat started on Wednesday, September 03, 2014 6:00:51 PM
Country: Saudi Arabia
Page URL: http://www.teoalida.com/

(6:00:51 PM) *** Visitor 80330393 has joined the chat ***
(6:00:52 PM) Visitor: hi
(6:01:00 PM) *** Teoalida has joined the chat ***
(6:01:05 PM) Teoalida: Hello
(6:01:56 PM) Visitor: how r u.?
(6:02:23 PM) Teoalida: fine, why do you ask?
(6:03:23 PM) Visitor: are you male or female..?
(6:03:54 PM) Teoalida: What are you really looking for?
(6:04:15 PM) Visitor: a girl.
(6:04:28 PM) Teoalida: Collecting personal info or dating?
(6:04:55 PM) Teoalida: Most people who contact me, they contact for housing-related enquiries
(6:06:10 PM) Visitor: yeah me just i was joking

(6:06:23 PM) Teoalida: Yes I see that you were joking
(6:06:59 PM) Visitor: actual i searching section detail.
(6:07:04 PM) Visitor: do u know.?
(6:07:05 PM) Teoalida: Perhaps you’re someone who know me so you were in mood for joking… we talked before? are you one of people for which I designed a house plan?
(6:08:43 PM) Visitor: bro i wanna know about the home elevation and section detail.
(6:08:58 PM) Visitor: im very serious now..
(6:09:09 PM) Teoalida: I talk each month with 10+ new people from Middle East, 70% of them being from Philippines… are you one of people who talked before?
(6:09:33 PM) Teoalida: Elevation and section I design AFTER floor plan
(6:10:38 PM) Teoalida: I sent sketchy floor plans to many people telling them to return at me if they need detailed floor plan, elevation and section… who are you? Tell me your email
(6:11:17 PM) Visitor: ok can u give me some stair case detail.
(6:12:15 PM) Visitor: im road designer . i wanna know about building structural.
(6:12:35 PM) Teoalida: in which country do you build?
(6:13:05 PM) Visitor: india.
(6:14:33 PM) Visitor: are you there.??
(6:14:40 PM) Teoalida: yes, but confused
(6:15:17 PM) Visitor: why bro.?
(6:16:14 PM) Visitor: do u have any doubt from me.?
(6:16:15 PM) Teoalida: Are you a NEW customer? The way you are talking looks like a returning customer but I have no idea who are you.
(6:17:38 PM) Visitor: no im fresher . i told u i was searching about structural.
(6:18:08 PM) Teoalida: do you have a floor plan? or tell me land dimensions and number of rooms… so I can make a floor plan for you?
(6:20:08 PM) Visitor: oh really thank you teoalida
(6:20:19 PM) Visitor: where are you from.?
(6:20:31 PM) Visitor: may i know about you.?
(6:21:20 PM) Teoalida: maybe yes… or maybe is better to let the personal info for later. First let me know how I can help you
(6:22:30 PM) Visitor: great. ok i have land 248 m²
(6:22:53 PM) Visitor: so i have to build a duplex villa.
(6:23:59 PM) Teoalida: I had several cases when people asked things about me, I answered their questions and they immediately quit without telling me what they actually wanted from me
(6:24:01 PM) Teoalida: how many rooms?
(6:31:45 PM) Teoalida: are you still there?
(6:49:45 PM) Visitor: so you should tell about you are self.?
(6:50:16 PM) Visitor: ok i want g+1 home
(6:53:10 PM) *** Visitor has left ***

I wanted to design a quick sketch for him, THEN I was answering any questions he would ask about me (bearing the risk of stopping replying after he see that I am not indian.

Offline messages

I get tons of messages from Indians during morning, most short and meaningless, I reply to everyone but 80% never reply back.

Offline Message left on 15 Sep 2014, 10:01 AM (GMT+0)
give me a house map advice in 55 sqm

My reply: As written on website YOU NEED to provide land length and width and number of bedrooms wanted (at least), then depending by these data I may ask you how many floors, open kitchen or separate room, if carpark is necessary, etc. By giving me just 55 sqm how I can advise you?

No further reply from him.

Other funny cases

Why I did not disclosed where I live to the above customer? Because of the following cases:
I don’t know if this fall under definition of RACISM or they just want to work only with local people.



Another indian asking confusing questions instead of telling me what he wants.

9 comments

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    • Good Indian on April 19, 2015 at 6:51 pm
    • Reply

    We shd learn from other cultures
    we are way behind others
    i think the first step is respecting our women

    • Good Indian on April 19, 2015 at 6:54 pm
    • Reply

    Hey everyone you need to pay a percentage in advance on the first day as security ,
    if you can’t then how is he suppose to work ??

    You need to trust professionals , they want the best for you .

  1. I am Judy from U. S. A. I am enjoying your site so much. The parts about the “cheap-ass” people that want something for nothing. I really like people that tell the truth and you are great!
    Suggestion: have an application for potential customer to fill out. And ask for a small deposit. Always when referring to it, always say “small”. And don’t say how much until you see what their requirements are. Have a place on your application for what the customer expects to get: such as:just a floor plan, a full design etc.
    After you review their app, then tell them what you need from them such as lot size, total budget for project etc. Always be professional with all of them. Expect to get their deposit St the same time they submit the other things, that way you can say “While I have received your app, I have yet to receive…..
    Good luck with your businesses.

    1. During 2015 I had a form that required customers to enter 8 details such as country, land dimensions, how many rooms, etc. Most people did not filled it properly so when I emailed them had to ask proper details. When I made price offer none replied back. I can tell you that tried many strategies and NONE worked to get rid of non-paying idiots. The only solution is to delete all architecture pages from website so nobody will contact me anymore for this type of services, and stick on database/programming business. What is your business success?

    • Asa on January 26, 2018 at 6:17 pm
    • Reply

    Hello,
    In my line of work I have dealt with people from all around the world, including Asia, Africa, Latin America, europe and the us.

    Indians are by far not only the most cheap but also argumentative and stressful bunch. I have recently had yet another experience with an Indian that asked for a refund for an event and then tried to make the case that I also owed her for her travel costs to the event and if I didn’t give her extra money she would sue me (on top of being Indian she was also a lawyer)

    I now have a policy of not dealing with any Indian that does not pay full price, immediately. Their haggling process is so stressful and long winded that they will waste your time endlessly with no appreciation for service and no interest in building a humane business relationship.

    I suggest that you put in a tiny consultation fee $1 for everyone. You will cut out 80 percent of your Indian customers, which is just as well because they are cheap, rude and entitled. You can make exceptions to the $1 consultation on a case by case basis with good customers, but it will really deter anyone that is not willing to take out their wallet at all.

    Bless you. Romania is a lovely country I hope to visit one day. I would also like to visit Philippines.

    1. To clarify… are you architect or what services do you provide? Where are you from? Do you have a website to promote your services? Do you use live chat software on your website? Because indians seems to use the chat whenever one is available. Out of total people contacting you, how many % do turn into paying customers? As far I heard from other architects working online, all them face with many non-serious non-paying customers, only those who work offline, local offices, do enjoy higher conversion ratio.

        • Asa on January 27, 2018 at 2:37 pm
        • Reply

        I am not an architect (I actually did go to architecture school) but I now run tech events in the US and there are many Indians in the tech sector. I use Eventbrite to promote events but do not use CHAT. However, I then talk to them over email to establish a ticket price. For my events business there are, MANY non serious customers that do not want to pay entrance fees, not just Indians. Many customers are also cheap. However, I really do not mind the cheap customers, because they are trying to save money and most of them just drop off when something is not affordable or free and they do not waste your time.

        The indian customers are different. They are exhausting. They want something free and argue until they get it. When they do pay they argue even more for the best service. They are generally awful customers whenever negotiating is involved; and as employees they also haggle endlessly and fight for every dime, to the point where work will not get done regardless of their skill level. If my business grows enough to outsource to other countries, I will use technical resources from another part of the world, ANY other part of the world, that is not india.

        The problem is that their technical skills are good but their social skills are terrible. Generally, no amount of technical skill can make up for really difficult personalities and bad social skills. I even asked an indian friend quite directly (and this man is one of the nicest people I know, but I have never had to negotiate a price with him), why they are so annoying and he said that india is very poor and every price is negotiated. However, this is cultural in my opinion and has nothing to do with poverty – because I have other clients from poor countries and there is a remarkable difference in attitude – if they cannot pay, they do not WASTE your time. Indian customers WASTE a lot of your time, they argue argue and argue, they are very dramatic and threatening in their negotiations.

        To top it off I even had a romantic relationship with an indian and at the end of the relationship he told me that I was after him for his money and he didn’t want to spend money on me and that I should return some of the money he spent on the initial dates. This is absolutely insane given that out of anyone I have ever gone out with, he was by far the cheapest. He never spent money on any restaurant that was not Asian or serving at a significant discount. We rarely went out, traveled or did anything remotely expensive (he only ate out at discount prices and took road trips at the expense of others, when someone else was paying for gas or travel). Needless to say I am done with them both personally and in business. I am now with an Egyptian and we have absolutely zero problems negotiating prices, despite the fact that we are from completely different cultures.

        I HIGHLY recommend a very affordable consultation fee, or eliminating 20 minute custom sketches you are making for people. (or you can even charge $1 for this custom sketch, you will see the people that want freebies run fast, even if you are only charging $1!!!). You can make the consultation fee .01 cents even. It will help you keep track of your requests, and weed out unnecessary consultations. The ONLY way to get rid of them and to occasionally get a good indian customer is to have fees up front.

        Recently with the indian lawyer I had to hang up on her mid-negotiation because she started accusing me of doing something illegal (charging for pay per click referrals) when these fees are quite common to charge for in tech. She twisted every word I said into an accusation to win – I don’t know what. They are also very emotional/very easily offended/ and take everything personally. I knew that pleasing her would take forever, and she would waste all my time and energy even if she became a client – so i don’t even want her as a client. She wanted free services because she said she had suffered ’emotional damage’ or something, in my opinion though she is the one that spread emotional damage with her endless negotiation, legal threats, over nothing! (we had actually refunded her entire ticket and given back all her money, and she wanted even more money from us!) She said she would sue me I told her to go ahead – I would rather deal with the court then spend all day arguing with her; because she already took a significant portion of my day arguing over a very small fee. At least at the court you fill out paperwork and that’s it, you don’t have to talk with them directly.

        You know someone has absolutely had it when they would rather deal with the legal system than to tolerate another customer of this kind.

        1. I hardly understand the events you are doing. People from other parts of world have a solid reason to pay travel costs to US and also ticket price?

          I already ended the 20-min sketch policy in 2015 when decided to leave architecture and put databases as primary job. Now when people message me I show drawings of past projects, often at different dimensions that they ask, if they keep asking for a drawing at their required dimension, I ask them to pay BEFORE doing anything… who don’t have money or don’t trust me, feel free to waste someone else time. Strangely some indians say Thanks and go away even with a drawing at another dimensions!

          But anyway, I am NOT looking for more customers in architecture, more recently I am telling paying people to go to someone else too because I am busy with databases. I am making enough money from database business and in architecture NOBODY is paying high enough. http://www.teoalida.com/design/housing/#leaving-architecture-business

            • Asa on January 27, 2018 at 5:07 pm

            No. people from other parts of the world LIVE in the US and come to our events. Yes, maybe database business money is better. I had a very bad run in architecture as well. It is too bad because architects really do very necessary work but they have been replaced by construction management in a lot of ways.

            I see some hope for design/build companies in the future.

  1. […] of some building from some city. This do not happen with people from other country. Read more: BAD indian customers in architecture. I came in conclusion that in India is popular to ASK what do you need instead of reading website […]

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